Tumult Hype on the Setapp Store


(Jonathan Deutsch) #1

We just wrote a blog post that Tumult Hype is part of the Setapp store beta. Let us know what you think of this method for software distribution (in general or relating to Hype).


(gan) #2

Monthly fee -> no deal with me.

I like to use Hype also because of the current purchase model.
I did find good alternatives for other Applications I had been using and that demand monthly fees, I am confident I will for Hype too.


#3

Hello All,

I never want to rent my software. So if this is the direction Hype is going then I will have to find a new application.
Already removing Adobe out of my professional pipeline due to their renting model.

Regards,
Titus Tears


(jabbawocky) #4

I have the Adobe CreativCloud for 4 years and I am fully satisfied. I pay 49, - Euro per month and have all Adobe products in ever current version available. As an independent graphic designer the best thing you can do. The monthly costs are manageable. Previously, I had to update my CreativSuite for 600 - 800 Euro once a year.

I would not however like here in this case for any software I do not need (except hype) a monthly rent. Even if it is only a few euros - I dont need 95% of the software that is offered here! - And only to have 50 apps on my computer?

I hope “Hype” remains with its update / upgrade model


(Lucky) #5

Don’t worry guys, it does say on the post:
Hype will continue to be available for purchase direct from our Tumult Store and the Mac App Store.


(Fotis Kalafatis) #6

I agree with all the above.

I think it’s attractive only to “occasional” customers; people who one day decide they want to do an animation and already have paid for the subscription in that toolbox. “hmm, I think I saw an app doing animation in that subscription service I’m having. I’ll check it out”.

I doubt customers who do design, or customers who were otherwise interested in Hype would be interested in renting it in a pack of 49 other apps. Especially since none of these apps are useful to a designer.

Even if they were design-oriented (ie there was a worthy replacement for most Adobe Cloud aspects inside this bundle), one would still choose the adobe solution since it’s proven and comprehensive - unless the Setapp pricing is ridiculously low (maybe as low as 1-5€/month “for all your designer needs” would be interesting)

Of course it’s understandable as a side-revenue for Tumult (I guess “these occasional users” is a new userbase that hype wouldn’t otherwise be able to approach), with two caveats though:
a) it may give the wrong impression to people that “hype has turned subscription based” (and thus push away “serious” customers) or
b) when seen in a bundle one might get the impression that hype is “one of these mediocre apps that are only worthy if found in a package deal” (which is bad publicity).


(jabbawocky) #7

Right! - I see that too! Hype is a professional program - for which I would pay more as I mentioned before. If it is here for 1-2 $ to rent is the value and reputation decreases.
That would be a shame!


#8

I think Hype is the MVP of the App list… https://setapp.com/apps …most of the others apps I’m not really interested in.

I’ve been thinking about upgrading Simon from the free version to the full version, but I don’t really have a need to monitor more than one website right now. WiFi Explorer is a very good app too, but I already have it.

I don’t like the idea of renting apps. :rage:

When I got the email from @jonathan I was happy – but only at first. You’re invited to beta test… woo hoo Hype 4 …the Setapp store… blah!

Although, I was also confused by a slight spike in Hype book sales today. The whole point of this Netflix for apps is to get developers more attention and more money. It seems it might be getting Tumult more attention, but is Tumult getting more money?

So… $10 a month, divided by 40 apps, is 25¢ a month for Hype? (That’s not even counting what the commission is for Setapp.) Even at 20¢ a month, that’s a long time for Tumult to beat a traditional sale.

First I had to figure out which version was in use… https://setapp.com/apps/hype …and it seems like the Pro version because I see Physics and Symbols listed as a feature. So, that’s $100 at normal price. That means Tumult would need a person to subscribe for 500 months or approximately 42 years.

I’m not really seeing how this helps Tumult in the long run.

Perhaps the developers get a different rate. Maybe Tumult is getting more money. Maybe the percentage is based on popularity. What exactly does Setapp do to the desktop computer? Does it monitor usage? I don’t know. I’m not about to join the beta to find out.

If Tumult needs more money and popularity, there’s an obvious way to accomplish that…

This is not to say that Setapp is a bad idea. Some people might like it. Netflix is incredibly popular, so a Netflix for Apps might appeal to some people. I don’t know if “Most” people will like it though, as the responses here in the forum show.

Even if I did subscribe, I’d basically be paying for apps that I already own, which means Setapp doesn’t make economic sense for me.

One thing is for sure, Setapp is good at getting coverage. This story seems to be getting solid media coverage. Meanwhile, the Mac App Store seems to be going nowhere. (I saw an iTunes card on sale in Costco, with a significant discount, I didn’t have a good enough reason to buy it.) Setapp creates competition. I think that’s a good thing.


(stuart) #9

Some thoughts:

(1) Software rental might make sense for new non-professional users of an operating system who don’t have any investment in software, but most experienced and professional users already have substantial software investment, so converting to a rental system doesn’t immediately offer any financial incentive – rather, it seems to be just an additional expense.

(2) Much of the resistance to software rental is based on lack of trust. How reliable will the supplier be over the long term? Will the rental rate escalate over time? Will levels of access be costed to separate high-end professional software from run-of-the-mill products? What happens when the rental ends – will any and what software will remain on the user’s computer?

Trust is important, especially as the whole process depends in the first place on a reliable Internet connection, which does not exist everywhere and is open to malware.

And (3), although the interface to the service is easy enough to navigate tight now, how will discovery be managed when and if the number of packages increases? The quality of discovery is not good even on Apple’s Store, and Apple has vast resources compare to a startup service. This again is out of the renter’s hands other than pressuring the supplier to improve the service.

I’m approaching this as a “normal” user. I’ll leave the developers’ view up to others.


(a_brougher) #10

I already don’t like monthly fee systems; seems to me they exist as a way to collect more money from people who underutilize a resource. I might be open to a “pay per minute” model. Then I’d know I’m getting exactly what I pay for and the more efficient I am the higher value I get (this would be tough on newbies).
For SetApp I’d also be worried about partnership changes over time in the app selection.


(lukasiewiczp) #11

I am not a fan of monthly subscription services either. Perhaps if they had a cheaper daily or weekly fee, I would be interested in that. There’s many apps that I like that I only use a handful of times throughout the year. I’m still running Adobe CS4 for that reason. I’m currently looking for replacement software for CS4 so when I upgrade my OS, I’ll still have functionality, because CS4 would no longer run. But I can’t see spending hundreds of dollars to “rent” software. I have been interested in Rapid Weaver for awhile. I think it’s reasonable to check it out for $10, but I would not want to rent it permanently. If I liked the program, I’d purchase the full version through the app store.


(wls) #12

I concur with the general theme: I’m getting pretty darn tired of Software as a Subscription and the whole rental model. I’m basically done with it.

Let me start by giving an example of who does it [the most] right: Adobe. It’s great to get ongoing feature upgrades, however, when something goes wrong – and it eventually does – rolling back to the prior version isn’t an option. In fact, I’ve had my business halted because the tools I needed “broke” on me. At least in one case, it was months before the fix reached a priority for them to address. Likewise, if I ever want off that train, I lose out on all prior investment. And there are times when I can’t or, based on location, don’t want to be on the Internet. I am actively looking for solutions to get away from Adobe now, and I’m willing to compromises of features, quality, and usability to do it. (And I’ve been a happy customer for years.)

Hype-on-demand is not an attractive option for me. I’d rather throw large handfuls of cash at you, knowing I’m always going to be able to run what I’ve bought, rather than have a micro-hole perpetually drilled in my wallet. As a user, I want my relationship to be with the provider …even …if …it …costs …more.

I know this rental-model sounds attractive for software developers – what could be better than an endless supply of predictable cash? Turns out, not so. When users are fed up with the subscription model, they downgrade or abandon … unlike special upgrades or every-other-year upgrades, they don’t come back. Take a look at the cord cutters and those that downgraded Netflix. I did the Adobe Creative Plan at $49/mo for about 2 years, I downgraded to the Photoplan for $10 … and found tools to replace the other needs. Think I’m going back? Nope. Think I’m going to keep paying indefinitely? Nope.

Software is like a cupcake – once it’s fully baked, and maybe frosted, it’s done. Take Microsoft Office and be honest – do you actually use every little new thing they have added over all the years, or is it primarily still the same old word processor for the same old needs? How much productivity did you lose when all your memorized shortcuts that were muscle memory went out the window for a ribbon that took up far more screen real-estate than needed? They are now putting sprinkles and gummy worms and chocolate chips inside, next month raisins. Software can reach a saturation point for features and change-for-change sake is even worse.

As Hype becomes the best at doing what it does, I’d much rather see another product spin off than it to become the does-everything application, just to keep folks “perceiving” value in a software rental store.

But I’ll share one more thing – there used to be a time when MacHeist curated the best of the best for its bundles, and merely the name alone (or the surrounding products) got folks in the door and upgrading. I would have never have bought, less known of, Hype were it not for a high-quality bundle. But now there are copy-cat bundles, and the reputation is dropping – there are a number of lesser-quality apps that are in every low-end bundle. I now ignore those bundles when I see them, and I used to spend like crazy.

I have to agree, Hype is -the- most valued product in the bundle, and it’s presence is not dragging the other softwares’ reputation up, but rather Hype’s down.


(Rick) #13

If you absolutely have to go the subscription route, I hope Tumult can use both options, subscription and just buy and “own”.

I’m still on OS X 9.5 because of adobe’s current ‘hostage ware’ model. CS 5 crashes a lot under X.9 so upgrading my OS will make it worse but I am just never ever going to pay for a subscription.

I’m currently working on converting my old Flash files to Hype HTML5 and once that’s done use some spare time to dive into 'Affinity Photo and Affinity Designer, both I already own but found no time to see if they are good enough so I can kick adobe finally off my SSD’s and upgrade my OS.

If Hype goes subscription only, I’m just going to have to look for other options.

Just my tiny 2cts. Keep up the good work and please, don’t go ‘evil’ :cry:.


(Nick ) #14

After signing up for the beta my feedback is…

Lots of apps I would not use on a regular basis to justify a monthly fee.
It is a shame they could not set it up like Apple movie rentals.
Especially since many of these apps are utilities that are needed on an as is needed basis.

24 Hour Rent, or Purchase the app.

From a business standpoint you will make money on the popular apps and you will quickly see which apps are not hitting the mark for consumers.

Add to that over time your rental and purchase KPI’s will allow you as an App distributor to guide developers to produce products based on your core consumers needs and wants.

Or break the mold of the cable companies monthly fees and add a tiered option as well.

  1. 24 hour rent
  2. Monthly fee
  3. Buy the app.

More options and the consumer will more than likely be willing to try more of the products in SetApp


(kerguelen) #15

I agree with what is said before : app renting is something I really don’t like.
Since Adobe has set this was of distributing, I’m using alternatives for my usual uses. I like being able to pay once for all. On the psychological aspect, subscription plan makes you feel you’re always paying.
Subscription or punctual renting could be useful for very special cases like if you need to use once a very expensive software.


(Ken Heins) #16

I definitely come down on the side of owning vs. renting in just about all aspects of life, and I would go along with renting if thats all there was. Some casual users might become pros, and thats ok, natural selection will weed out those that don’t make it.

Hype, especially as it develops, is not for the casual user. I LIKE THAT, separates the men from the boys, so to speak. That separation needs to occur. Hype wouldn’t be what it is if it was intended for the casual user. You have to practice every day to keep your skills.

Similar situation: I have 21 years in Tae Kwon Do, a 2 time Olympian out of our club. Our clubs have existed for 35 years. Every 6 months, a new competitor opens up down the street promising to make anyone a black belt in 2 years OR LESS! After they close in less than a year, we get their students coming in with one of their black belts. We won’t make them take them off, but after one night of class, they leave never to be seen again, or in 1 case, the student came back the next night wearing his original white belt, worked his way all the way back up in 4 years, all respect to that guy. Kind of off the subject, but there is a point to be made about professionalism.

The web page market is all mucked up with "do it yourself"web page services, 98% if which either never get published because they are so bad, or cause many requests to people like us to work for free: “it will just take a few hours to help me fix it and then I will love you forever!” Yeah right. I do have one customer who converted to my services.

If renting software is all there is: ok. The pros will still be pros one way or the other. Or not. I can’t blame the guys for wanting to increase their exposure.


(Lucky) #17

Personal thoughts:
I’m not against this idea, but now that I’ve tried this for a couple of days I have to say most of the apps are not related to what hype does and aren’t really worth more than 5 bucks an app…

If it was more specific such as a bundle with
Hype
Sublime Text pro
Transmit Pro (there is an ftp app there but it’s not very good)
an Illustrator alternative
a Photoshop alternative(like procreate)
and in general a bunch of apps good for web/interaction/app/ad development
then I would be totally be interested in this if I didn’t already have a cloud subscription, but with the current apps it’s not really worth the money. And yeah to be honest Hype feels like the most premium product out of most of the apps by a lot.


(Dennis van Leeuwen) #18

Hey Johnathan,

if the buy version stays I am happy. I’ve been looking for way to get away from Adobe Products and Hype is one of those products that helps in that Perspective. Why, due to its the Monthly fee.

This model doesn’t work correctly for Adobe. It is bound by pushing new feature updates once a year, so it keeps its paying-user base busy. But in this process we, the paying-users, became their guinea pigs on testing. We have to test the software for them and in return they get feedback on bugs or features that where not clear or correctly added. Where prior there was a testing team before a new product was released. I understand that there will always be updates during versions. But now it feels wrong To me it does. Some like this process, others lose trust in a company. But a win/win situation for a software company. Paying costumers test our software.
In the long run you lose your costumer base and inflict them with a trauma.

I am a Desktop Publisher, 2nd generation (1995). In my time I have seen the downfall of Quark-eXpress and I am also seeing what is happening with Adobe’s Creative Cloud and Marketing Cloud (give the power to Accountants) at the moment. They are bombing us with new updates, but in the process generating new bugs and unstabilities in their software that has, for the most part, been working correctly in the last 25 years.

For instance Indesign. It being one of the reasons why Quark lost their position in the world market, has so many features build in since Creative Cloud started, it is getting strange colormanagement bugs in generating PDFs. In every new (empty) document there is an active cyan color. Meaning it is actively set to nothing in the document. In DPS we delete not used colors from the pallet. The bug wasn’t there from 1999 to 2015. But in the last 2 updates it is. I and many more have informed Adobe.

I could go on, but this isn’t about Adobe and its software-pool.

Let see if SetApp has a good pool of Application in the coming months, so that it combine well with Hype. Then maybe a jump could be attractive.

Cheers.

Something totally different:
Do you guys have a Sticker for my Laptop?

you can make em at StickerMule.


(Adam Gojanovich) #19

I think the concept of something like Setapp is interesting, but my experience so far:

I had to uninstall and reinstall it, because initially the app folder it created was just a shortcut to it’s own mounted disk, and failed to show any apps. Second time worked.

Once the folder installed it self, Hype launched quickly, and though I only played with it for a few minutes, was perfectly stable in opening files created with the stand alone app, making edits, and previewing.

As far as Setapp goes, having to click each individual app to discover what it does is a terrible model for browsing, so I have no idea what I’ve got already on my computer, unless I take the time to click and memorize what each one is whether I use it or not.

The apps in this bundle are not comparable to Hype. Many of them are lesser, or things like iStat which were once a free dashboard widget. It seems to cheapen the Hype app being thrown into a bundle like this. Bundles can be great, when it’s something like Mac Heist, where there are leading apps and then supporting ones in the bundle, but this seems pretty unflattering to the Tumult brand.

Also, the curation concept is interesting, but this particular list has several apps that are redundant to system functions, redundant to themselves (what happened to the “best app for the job” idea) or are apps I don’t care for, which make me believe that their curation is not for me right off the bat.

The subscription model is relevant for software that costs thousands of dollars, because it can save you a sum of money. Even though a great app like Hype is a part of this bundle, I’d have a really hard time wrapping my head around the idea of paying $120/year to have a bunch of apps I wouldn’t use. Not to mention a utility to “clean my computer”, when frankly all I can associate that sort of app with is spyware, legitimate or not.


#20

It’s been really great to hear what people think of setapp. I want to make clear that we have no intention of switching to ‘Setapp only’ distribution, and we will continue to sell our software for perpetual licenses that you can use until :sun_with_face: goes supernova.

These forums may not be the best place to talk about rental subscriptions since you all have (hopefully) already purchased Hype through our store, the Mac App store, or from a bundle. Converting someone from ownership to rental is a psychological clusterbomb and not what we want to do.

Setapp allows new users to discover and use Hype, and that is definitely one of the value propositions for us. One thing I have been hearing a lot is that being a part of Setapp is damaging to the reputation of Hype – for people who haven’t heard of Hype I’m not sure this is the case because we likely have zero reputation points built up with them. Of all the apps installed by Setapp, new users to Hype may find that it’s is the only one they really want to ‘own’.

We take our relationship with ya’ll seriously.

For another perspective, checkout this discussion on Product Hunt: https://www.producthunt.com/posts/setapp-2

And hey I also wanted to mention as a sidebar that many of these apps available through Setapp are absolutely complementary to Hype, web development, and content creation:

  • Capto can capture video + audio of your screen and replaces Screenflow for me which launches with UPGRADE ME NOW each time. It also overcomes a shortcoming of Hype (no audio in video exports)
  • Focused, Marked, and Ulysses are Markdown processors and writing apps great for exporting styled text (bold, italic, ordered lists, links, etc). Copy + Paste into a Hype element for styled text.
  • Marked on its own is amazing if you write or process text. Check it out: http://marked2app.com
  • Gifox is great for recording GIFs from any area on your screen. Drop em right into Hype.
  • Permute is a powerful video encoding tool that can quickly convert videos to web safe MP4s, OGVs, and Webms. I had used this prior to setapp as a replacement for Miro Video Encoder.
  • Rapidweaver (You all know what this does…)
  • Simon can be used to monitor your website for downtime, run user tests, and way way more.
  • Squash: Drag your exported .hyperesources folder onto Squash to squeeze more bytes out of your images files. Like Imageoptim, but Imageoptim supports animated GIF squishing.
  • Yummy FTP Pro: Powerful FTP client with Hype-Friendly things like FTP syncing & scheduling (sync your export folder with your server automatically).

:kissing: