So there's the biggest challenge. I've been playing with Catalyst. Next month is a big month. Here's why…
So, basically, the race-to-the-bottom for App Developers hits another level down. The trend will be for developers to charge once for all three platforms — mac, iOS and iPad. That means, if Tumult put the work into supporting iOS, people are going to want that iPad app for free. HA HA.
Although, Catalyst is interesting. I have three potential projects were I'm considering further experimentation with Catalyst — Picopede, Bricked and Widgets/Apparatuses. (The first two are related to the Hype book.)
I'm waiting for March to see what happens. I'm planning to take some time out from writing the book, so that I can link up Widgets and Apparatuses. I figure it should take no more a day. Heh, but this is Apple app development.
This thread has been far too quiet since the WWDC. A lot of new details have emerged in this space, so has the Tumult position changed at all? Will Rosetta help you with migration? I have an Ipad pro waiting for me... if I can ever get a flight back to the US. Anyway, I plan to make the ipad pro with magic keyboard my primary work device and having Hype would really help in that space.
Has anyone else's position changed given what we know now?
There was a recent discussion on the Forum Lounge with @jonathan after WWDC. Apart from using sidecar I think you'll be out of luck for a full iPad version in the near future.
Thanks, Max. I did see the sidecar feature, which is pretty nice in its own right, but it is not what I was hoping for.
I wonder how easy it would be to convert Hype for the new ARM architecture. Presumably, Tumult would have to undertake this sooner or later, no? When they do, wouldn't hype be possible on an iPad anyway? Furthermore, it seemed like conversion in Rosetta 2 was a trivial task in most cases.
Based on what we saw coming out of WWDC, it seems the lines between iPad OS and OSX are significantly blurred, given the architectural change and the changes in Big Sur. If all those assumptions hold true, it would seem one would be able to install hype on iPad even if it isn't optimised for the form factor, or am I missing something?
Whatever happens, I can still use my old intel macbook pro until the situation changes, but if that ever gives up the ghost I would be stymied.
It is basically done - it was about a week's worth of effort, though a few nonessential todo items remain with the conversion.
No, iPadOS is a different operating system than macOS. Think of it this way: Hype runs on Intel-based Macs but does not run on Intel-based Windows PCs.
macOS and iPadOS do share a some frameworks that Hype relies on, but does not share UI-related frameworks that a significant amount of Hype's code uses.
Apple could theoretically decide to get all the macOS frameworks running on iPad hardware, in much the same way they have decided to get all the iOS frameworks running on the upcoming ARM Macs to run iOS apps. However, there's really no incentive for them to do this; a Mac app on an iPad is a much worse experience than a iPad app on a Mac for both UI and performance reasons.
Perhaps the question is better put on you: why do you want Hype on the iPad?
What other apps do you use that are on the iPad to produce assets that would be used in Hype?
What other apps do you use on the iPad that would be used for publishing Hype-based animations?
Professional, productive work tends to be the providence of personal computers and not tablets. I buy that folks: A) love their iPads and B) do get real work done, but: A) many love their iPads because they are places to go to not do work! and B) the market fundamentals of iPad software would probably not result in it being a profitable endeavor.
I'd guess that it would take about a year to make a competent iPad version of Hype, and I think most users would be better served by that year being spent adding features to the Mac version.
Thanks for the detailed and thoughtful response. The bit about the differences in UI related frameworks makes a lot of sense. Does the coming availability of Xcode on the ipad have any bearing on this? Doesn't Xcode 12 and the new SwiftUI include widgets that work universally across the entire ecosystem?
Framework issues aside, I believe some of your conclusions are well-reasoned, but incorrect. For example, on the issue of performance, my iPad pro 2020 crushes my 2017 macbook pro with 16gb of ram in almost every task and benchmark. The performance differences between pro ipads and even mid-range laptops seem to lean in favour of the ipad.
As to UI related challenges, many of these have been addressed in the last 6 months with cursor support on the iPad. What is more, Daniel's demo of sidecar in Hype with the apple pencil illustrates (pardon the pun) desirable and existing UI improvements on the iPad. Certain tasks in animating vectors in Hype are fundamentally more natural on the iPad than they are on the traditional laptop/desktop.
Apps for animation on the iPad are ubiquitous and fun to use on the iPad due to the touch-centric interface. Affinity and Procreate come to mind, though many others exist. To be sure, some of these would be complementary to Hype. I would be rather surprised if other content creators are not doing this already.
With due respect, the "productive work is done on computers not tablets" is a worn-out argument, particularly as the lines between the two product categories become increasingly blurred or obliterated. This fact is especially noticeable in the creative space of animation. I seem to recall similar arguments having been made in the transition period where laptops began overtaking desktops. Though it is before my time, I believe a similar line was also taken in the transition from mainframe computers to personal computers before that... okay it is not really before my time... but I like to think it was .
Finally, I am not sure your conclusion regarding the "market fundamentals of iPad software" holds up to scrutiny. Although many apps on ipad have a lower MSRP than counterparts on MacOS, some pro apps do in fact reach the lower thresholds of what you would find on OSX, e.g. LumaFusion, Adobe lightroom, FCPX, LogicPro, etc.
All that to say, while on the face of things there may be certain challenges surrounding the form-factor, many of these are overstated or incorrect.
Nevertheless, I guess it is just a case of "watch this space". I suspect some of the recent changes to the ecosystem with the concomitant uncertainties have developers wary of investing a lot of time and effort into something without knowing for certain where the market is moving. This is certainly understandable. I look forward to further conversation and rebuttal.
Xcode on the iPad is only a rumor that was going around prior to WWDC, and has not been announced by Apple. I would put money on it not happening this year.
It would only make a difference insomuch that for Apple to make a compelling version of Xcode they would probably also have to make many other changes to iPadOS that would favor software like Hype.
The iPad has been around for 10 years and Apple has not deemed that it is a good idea to make iPad apps on an iPad, or a good idea to at least port Xcode to the iPad. That says a lot to me.
(And if I were in charge of the Dev Tools team, I would make the same decision)
Yes, but Hype was not written with Swift nor SwiftUI. If Hype were rewritten using these technologies it would be more portable. It would probably be much harder to write Hype using them.
SwiftUI is probably still a few years from being mature and usable for a full application like Hype. It took about 5 years from Swift's release before I would have touched it. Seeing the pains other developers went through as they dramatically changed the language and dealt with performance issues reaffirms my decision there.
When building application software for users, I want to build on rock-solid foundations so the focus can be on delivering features and not in the engineering weeds of hacking around language issues.
This is absolutely true, but aside from vectors and being able to trace out more natural motion paths, I cannot think of other advantages. Which means a lot of work for very little software gain.
I'm of course open to hearing other ideas for features .
I personally developed the vector shapes feature with AstroPad always running on my iPad for testing pencil strokes. It, or Sidecar, is a pretty great solution, and if you have an iPad one that exists now. An iPad version of Hype doesn't enable anything new if you already have a Mac and an iPad. Likewise Wacom/Cintiq tablets have been around for quite some time and could always be used in these contexts.
I believe this is the case for hand-drawn art/animations that are a bit more analog in nature. Callipeg and Rough Animator specifically are wonderful cases for an iPad app using the Pencil.
Hype's pixel precision isn't as easy to achieve when the tools for iPad are not pixel precise. Even the new default mouse cursor does not have a single pixel representation for where a click would occur unlike the arrow point of a Mac.
While there are 13" iPads, this is the largest size and one still needs to write software to accommodate 1024x768 screens. At first glance, this isn't too far off from Hype's default window size of 1172x806, but one cannot measure in pure pixels, as Mac controls can be much smaller. One needs to think more about "hit target resolution." To make a good iPad app you must be able to accommodate touch targets. A 16x16 pixel control on a Mac is doable, but on iOS 40x40 is about the minimum. This would mean expanding the control sizes significantly to the point where you would need to have UI that would hide them most of the time. To do anything, you'd be constantly summoning and hiding the panels, making for a pretty terrible experience. Hype could be rethought to require less of this, but that probably means changing a lot of functionality and it really isn't Hype at that point.
I have not seen any businesses buying only iPads for their graph designers, or typically for anyone as their sole machine. The reality is that even though one can do real work on an iPad, it is often less efficient. Businesses thrive on efficiency. Great apps enable efficiency.
(There are a few specialized industries like doctors where the different form factor does make sense)
Desktops generally still exists in contexts that they did before, though a desktop may be powered by a laptop -- that is to say it is common to have a larger external monitor, better keyboard, and mouse hooked up. There's no getting around the fact that people are more productive with large displays and precise ergonomic input devices. I often see folks at coffee shops bring a whole setup along with them because their laptop-based ergonomics are so bad (no thanks to the terrible keyboards in Apple's 2015-2019 laptops). There's no escaping the physics of a human being.
FCPX is not on the iPad. Logic Pro is not on the iPad. (Logic Pro does have a companion iPad app, as does Hype with Reflect!)
Adobe has tried many iPad apps and nearly all of them have failed.
LumaFusion stands out, but I don't hear about folks preferring it over FCPX or Premiere.
Hype was started in 2010, the year the first iPad was introduced. The idea of making an iPad version has always been on the radar, and I've even done some prototyping for it.
In watching this space since 2010, I have seen nearly every gain of the iPad be adding features that have already been on the Mac, many since the 1980s. Larger screen sizes, multitasking/split views, USB, 2nd display, cursor support, etc. Yet still the Mac's implementation is often superior for most application software. So why not just use a Mac?
Wow, Jonathan. Thanks for an incredibly detailed response. This really does help to paint a more complete picture of the state of development on the ipad in general and Hype in particular.
It is reassuring to know that Hype will continue to work on Arm-based macs going forward. I already have the iPad, but my 2017 macbook pro has a problem with its screen. I was debating on whether it would make sense to buy another macbook if I already have the iPad, but your explanation has moved me forward in the decision. I'll probably wait for the arm-based macs to be released later in the year, though.
I have used iPads since they first came out, BUT have to be up front when I say that I often have to search for my iPad, can't remember where I put it.
My honest opinion is that the list of things that the touch interface CANNOT do radically outnumbers the things that it CAN do.
Include me as well. I have an iPadPro, and this would be great. Honestly, adding touch capabilities during design would be great. Most iPad Pro users use a keyboard, so typing is fun. I generally create my SVG's in Affinity Design, which has an iPad version.
Hey there, just gonna bump this one to the top in light of Big Sur and Apple launching the M1 chip. Does all this point to a converged future where writing for a macOS device is so similar to iPadOS that you might as well open up that additional revenue stream?
I get it, some of you don't see the point. But when your only Apple device is an iPad, I'd be more than happy to work around some of the kinks. Even if that meant taking the Adobe route and releasing a variant that doesn't support all of the features, like in iPad versions of Photoshop and Illustrator.
Not exactly at this time - the main application framework for mac apps is still quite a bit different than that for iOS. Basically starting as a Mac app makes this a bit harder, but at the same time it makes making a great mac app easier :).
Going in the other direction is easier. Apple has made some solutions like the Catalyst framework and running iOS apps directly on Macs that would make it easier to port an iOS app to the Mac. However these apps are less Mac-like and typically limited in a lot of subtle ways that Hype relies on.
Пожалуйста, сделайте версию для айпад про.
Уже пол года как полностью перешёл на айпад отказался от мак бук про.
Программирование и видео монтаж работают здорово. Звук записывать просто красота. Осталось анимацию с Ява скрипт:-)))
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