Some considerations about Hype and how I would like it to be

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:rofl: not if you take the latest Mac Pro into account

My feeling about the community and the people asking questions it is more about designers wanting to do something. Personally I like programming and Hype has some „hooks“ you can use to do just that but in general most things work without programming. Even when it comes to conditional logic that can be „simulated“ with disappearing layer on timelines etc.

It is an interesting question as full programmers will certainly use a full web stack with VUE, React and pure code. And classic “designer” might only use tools like Sketch, Adobe XD or Figma. But there is actually a middle ground with people not being a designer nor a programmer and offering “full service”. Coming from the age of Flash this was a web creative and that is exactly the sweet spot Hype resides in. Not saying it couldn’t be improved but it has an onboarding and tools that work great without JS and offers many places to be extended (also because of it being based on HTML5).

Okay, you won’t like my suggestion:
Use Hype DocumentLoader… it’s in the extension section. It allows to roll your own or at least tweak the output. If you don’t want to do that you can find the code and classes of the loader and style them using CSS.

But creating something that uses one Hype-Document as a preloader for another would also be interesting… giving you the ability to animate the preloader in the IDE.

Timelines, Symbols and custom behavior can take you very far and allows for many things without a single line of code. In fact in a workshop I gave on the subject of Hype I introduced code only on the last day of the four full day sessions.

I must disagree as said in the previous section. I post much JS but it is on the extension category and that is what the category is for. But this doesn’t mean you can’t do really many things without it. Then again Hype is an HTML5 editor and HTML5 is by definition a collection of API’s the browser vendors came around together to offer a standard way to address multimedia (JS-API’s) specially after the passing of Flash. Taking Flash… it offered a visual interface but gradually introduced ActionScript to do fancy stuff. Comparing Hype to Flash let’s Hype fall behind on things as Frame by Frame animation and inverse kinematics (bones) etc. out of the box but it is much opener sitting on top of HTML5. Flash was caged into a little box you had trouble leaving.

I’d agree on this one although Hype has “Action Stacks” they don’t offer conditional branching. I am not so much a fan of node based programming although it creates clean code it can be very overwhelming when it get’s even slightly complex. There was request for a FSM style like interface and I’d like to see a view showing the custom behavior and action stacks in a wireframe view. There was also the recent idea to create a Hype Scratch like view but Jonathan didn’t see the value in it right away. I must say that jumping from a linear action stack to free form code might be a bit much to ask of “designers”. Maybe a Sketch Blocks interface could help in that transition and offer an intermediary step. But then again all the other products are on the market an you can use them.

Learning to program is never a waste of time. Our world is a gigantic network of connected computer system running nearly every aspect of our life. So, the way I see it … you’re living in a foreign country not wanting to learn the local language. At least on the level of logic this shouldn’t be discarded (conditional thinking, branches, loops etc.). Maybe something like Hype Sketch would be for you then…

Even though I don’t think like you. I hope you value the input/feedback. I found yours interesting although I guess your missing out on some aspects that work without code.

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Thank you for your intervention and yes, I appreciate what you wrote. Beautiful things are born from comparisons like these so let’s compare without problems. But let’s be clear, I like Hype. If I write these things it’s because I want the most from this program. I’d be willing to pay him triple to be satisfied … but let me clarify a few things.

In my opinion, there will never be people who can do both, that is, program and create visual compositions of a certain level.
Or if there are people like that they will be lacking either in one or the other competence. If you are a programmer you can’t create visual projects of a certain level because you are a programmer and not a designer. And vice versa. Of course, there can always be the user who is good at everything but I think you can really count on your fingers (they will be very few).
In fact, those who program have to do with logic, with mathematics, with fixed patterns, repetitive and all in all inflexible. Dialogue with a machine and could not do otherwise.
Those who “draw” instead have no fixed schemes and travel on other ways of thinking but also of feeling. Art, after all, cannot be kept in pre-built schemes or instructions to follow.
For God’s sake, you can also be an artist by creating a code. Creativity exists in every human activity, but you’ll agree with me that a programmer has to follow very precise paths from which you can’t get away at all, otherwise the machine won’t understand the instructions given and it won’t work. The artist doesn’t have these limits.
This doesn’t mean that one is better than the other, but I want to put a well marked line of separation to make you understand how they are actually two figures absolutely distant from each other.

The company that creates video games needs the people who program and who “draw”. That’s a rule established by experience. Who has the mind of a programmer can not be an artist (understood as the one who creates visual experiences) and vice versa.

Asking a visual designer to program is like asking a programmer to paint a canvas. Impossible!

Now Hype is not a real development tool on which you program in C or machine language. It uses a simple language like Javascript. But it’s always a language that needs to be studied and not many designers have time to do it.

The idea then would be to make Hype more “user-friendly” by giving the possibility to many creatives to program in blocks, such as Scratch for example. This would give many of us (I’m in the middle of it too) the chance to move better with interactivity and have the chance to create better interactions.

You write to me that many things can be done without programming. Well, if you want to keep within the multimedia presentation a value, for example 1 and 0, how do you do without programming in Javascript? I don’t think there’s a way to do that. Why keep a value? Because if I want to check the conditions I need to create a switch that helps me to guide the user as I want. Yes, maybe you can do it with different timelines inventing strange systems, but wouldn’t that be a huge waste of time?

If I wanted to create an application for children where drag and drop is the basis of the game mechanism, how do you do without programming in Javascript? Does Hype have events that you can put together without programming? I don’t think so…

See? I have ideas, but if I can’t get them out there, I’ll never be able to do anything. And how do I have ideas, I wonder how many other designers came up with something like that and then gave up because they had to study a programming language.

You can write to me that not studying a programming language is like going to a foreign country without studying its language. I think the comparison is exaggerated. If you go to a country other than yours and you have to live there every day you will need to learn the language. I agree with you, but Javascript only uses it when you need it and not always. And what do you do, you start to study a programming language only in your own right? Mmm…I don’t think that’s the right way. We are in the era of WYSWYG and there are systems that allow you to create interactivity without necessarily knowing how to program.

So let’s leave programming to those who want to be programmers and let’s help designers create interaction and multimedia applications with ease

@MaxZieb is your friend as he develops extensions to make your life easier and a drag’drop could be part of it :slight_smile:

Hype itself did a big step in supporting extensions by adding the data-property to its GUI.

Anyway an implementation of simple if else clauses would be a nice feature request.

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Then I guess I missed something. Where do I find these extensions?

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Thank you for the kind words. I’d love to do some drag’n’drop or custom GUI for extensions but that still isn’t easily possible.

Hype has custom behavior… that can trigger action stacks. Hype has Symbols that these behaviors can act upon… Hype has Scenes and Timelines. That’s all you need to write an interactive adventure with an inventory and all. All only using WYSIWYG.

Ye and no… because if you take it like that the Artist has to follow the rules of the medium he is working in. Okay, let us put the banana stuck with duct tape to the wall aside for a moment. My stepdad was an artist (woodpecker chipping away at wood) for over 40 years. He needed deep knowledge about his tools and wood. It requires effort to achieve mastery.

Given that computing is becoming such a multifunctional medium and creativity is so much closer for everybody because of it. In the early days it felt like working in a nuclear plant with two thick robber gloves on a joystick. These days the canvas often literally paints itself in many cases. I am not so sure if it’s always a good thing, though.

Just take the digital camera or the phone camera. The mastery of taking a good image is sinking into a black box that just makes sure people feel like professionals when hitting that record button.

True mastery at anything takes time and effort but it doesn’t require to be either or in case of programming and design. There are even computational artists or people using computers to create amazing and interactive installations. Another field is the maker space with all its great overlaps between art, craft and code. One example is cosplay … I saw people there that learned how to programm an Arduino to make their self built armour and swords glow in a certain pattern etc.

AND: any application that claims to be able do do “everything” inside one application becomes a 12,000 lb Adobe Monster.

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Where can I see your workshops? Do you teach online? Reading your post maybe I didn’t really understand how to exploit the potential of Hype…:sunglasses:

Adding to what others have written here, I have no foundation in programming. I know basic HTML, CSS and that’s about it. I tried learning Javascript when there was an online course and the first 10 lessons where free. So I sat down, relaxed, noting in my agenda and started the free lessons. I never got past lesson 4. :sneezing_face: It just didn’t “click” in my head. After a few days I had to give up and realize I was “blind” for this type of code, logic and reasoning.

Having written that, there isn’t much where Hype constraints me in expressing my idea’s. Except for creating a full blown game, where being able to code large parts of the game (if this then that, else, x applies) is largely unavoidable, I haven’t run into much where I find myself unable to put my idea(s) into an Hype creation.

Large part is because of the help provided by the developers of Hype and this community, :smiling_face_with_three_hearts: when you are clear in what you have in mind, and can show (people keep forgetting that) what you did thus far and where you hit a roadblock.

Also does this website provide a wealth of information, samples and clues if you make proper use of the top search function. Like one way to create a custom preloader with your own image can be found here: How to make custom preloader with Hype-based animation <- that is the one I use, or this way by @Daniel Creating a Custom Preloader

A lot can be done by using multiple timelines, pause the current one running while launching the next, pause that one and re-start, run backwards or continue the first timeline. Using that technic your possibilities are, I dare to say, nearly limitless without having to manually code 1 single line.

You just need to be able to see those possibilities.

Dear friend, that’s exactly what I wrote: not everyone can program. This doesn’t mean that with a little effort you can’t learn how to move around the code (and maybe you’ve found a bad course for beginners) but each of us has talents that follow different paths. There are those who have more of a logical mind and therefore will be better off writing the code, those who have a “visual” mind and will be better at graphics and animations. That’s the way we are.
My speech was precisely oriented in giving the opportunity to those who do not have a “mathematical” mind to write their own code without necessarily having to learn a language. And especially without having to ask every time on the forum why you don’t always have an answer and don’t always answer as it should be.

Block programming allows you to program events without writing a line of code. This way of programming has been very successful in recent years and has given thousands of creative people the opportunity to add life to their multimedia creations. Among other things, the blocks are visual and this helps those with a mind that is not purely mathematical or logical to move more easily. I learned how to make games using this system, first with Multimedia Fusion (Clickteam) and then with Construct. However, these are software oriented to the creation of video games and have little to do with multimedia presentations or animations. It lacks many tools such as text management for example which is very lacking. In any case they are a good example of what could be Hype.

Some programs that use blocks, also show to the side the code that lies behind us. A great way to help you better understand how a program works or the logic behind it.

Repeat, for me the way is this. It’s true that on the forum there are pieces of code to use but those who don’t know how to program can just copy and paste the code because they don’t really understand how it works. And if he needs to modify something becomes a big problem because you are not autonomous. You always have to ask on the forum and for me this is very frustrating…

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Well!!! You and I are equally thinking persons! What you write is like honey for a bee! I agree with absolutely everything! The only interesting thing for me in the new version was that I could make lines and use a pen tool to make something. That is about all! I have stopped checking the forum (discussions are mailed to users who don’t enter the forum department any more or very seldom). Discussions in the forum is more or less only about Javascript. Like you, I have the feeling that Hype is moving away from designers which is a shame as I am sure there is so much designers could use Hype for. Just look at the absolutely TERRIBLE user interface! It is almost impossible to work in if you are a designer. Nowadays I am forced to work in Adobe XD or Affinity Designer or Affinity Publisher when I design and then export to PNG and import into Hype. The only reason why I use Hype these days is because the Adobe and Affinity software cannot export into HLML5. Only Hype can do that and I say this to you, Hype creators, be glad about that. Once XD or the other two can save to HTML5, a lot of people will say good-bye to Hype! Please think about this, take these considerations seriously, do not act like politicians who refuse to see reality in their eyes and then dramatically lose the next election and do not understand why. I hope to see big changes in Hype 5! At the latest.

The apps you mentioned can already create HTML output (using plugins). If it’s only about design and art boards they are the future just because of the massive funding and corporate backing they have. No doubt there from my part. But trying to build a brick game or some custom fancy navigation will still be very hard with them for a while at least. A niche Hype is strong in. I build web pages with Wordpress using page builders or pinegrow not because Hype couldn’t do it but because I don’t consider it the right tool for building pages. If you want something fancy interactive, eye candy or it is a small page it might work though. My point being that Hype will have to pick it’s battles and allies very carefully in the future. For designers an import from popular software packages with layers and positioning would certainly be a welcome start!

I know there are plug-ins like HTML…, but they don’t work very well. I tried it in XD, but the design positioned itself to the left, not the centre. Or am I making mistakes? I have not tried plug-ins for Affinity as I did not know there were any.

Hype has one more nice thing I forgot to mention. You can make hyperlinks (wonderful)!! Also it is easy to use sound for example!

When I make webpages (not portals) I use Rapidweaver and the Foundry Stack. Hype I use for making portals and graphics intensive stuff. Affinity is perfect for making ”eye candy” with their extensive collection of tools!

Hype is a great tool! Absolutely! And without it, I would never be able to publish what I do. So, I hope they will continue developing as it is still very invaluable!

Thanks for commenting!

One more thing with HTML plug-ins in XD. You can only use it for one size. You end up with a lot of sizes. In Hype when you have made say ten layouts and you publish the product to HTML5, all sizes are published in one oiece and when you publish the HTML file on your web server, all sizes are there, Hype has fixed that! Incredibly good.

I tried the HTML plug-in in XD. It does position the contents well, but, as I wrote, just one individual size at a time. Not good. So, sticking with Hype is very important!

Feel free to elaborate on what in particular is problematic. We’re welcome to feedback on ideas for change (or pointers to other apps that you prefer in those specific areas). Thanks!

As an FYI, Hype’s focus has always been on targeting designers and not requiring code. The tag line continues to state “No coding required.” The forums discuss code more than the general Hype usage, as coding is the harder part that folks need more help with. Also one beauty of Hype’s basis on HTML5 is that if there is missing functionality, it can be worked around via code – most other design tools cannot do this.

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I continue to assert that if we want Hype to become a development tool for everyone (and by “development” I mean the programming of a more sophisticated interactivity) then I believe that it is necessary to find a way that gives the possibility, to those who do not know how to program, to do it visually, otherwise Hype will remain, for most users who do not program, only an application to make animations or to create banners.

I admit my ignorance about using Hype. I have made a few multimedia presentations with this application and therefore I do not fully understand its potential but I do not think, as you say, that you can really do anything with symbols, the timeline and some interactive buttons.

Surely you can’t create collisions with objects without Javascript code. If I wanted to make a rudimentary PONG, how could I do it with the only tools available?
If I wanted to create an educational game for children where some figures have to be dragged and placed on other objects correctly, how can I do it without code?
If I want to create a memory game how do I do it if I can’t create, store and manage values?

Obviously Hype is not a tool to make games but in these examples there is a lot of interaction that you could use to create presentations with a very high interactivity.

I say we consider giving Hype a visual way to program. I’d given examples in previous interventions. Look towards Scratch, Stencyl, or Construct and Game Salad. They could be key examples to add an extra dimension to our Hype.

We leave Javascript to the most complex projects and to those who want to program.

…and I add: if we have to pay an extra price for this, I am willing to pay double for it…

The other way rond:
I would like Hype to make accessible more or all of its capabilities within its API :slight_smile:

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We could always modify the runtime :slight_smile:

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