You are right, but its not as hard as it may seem. A Korean developer already has an app called Creature that allows for bone rigging and exports as HTML, WebGL Animations see below
And did you ask the Korean developer about how easy it was to create this?
1 Like
Thanks for the feedback; the upcoming vector shapes of v4 is a brick along such a path.
4 Likes
@daniel, I was just basing it on the idea of Hype being half way there in terms of the UI. Looking how hype interacts with Physics, Waypoints .Js
Libraries creature exports
http://creature.kestrelmoon.com/more_info_3.html
All I’m saying is, Hype is a great example of an amazing looking app the UI is just right or maybe Im use to it that I’d want to use for something like this and I’d pay an additional $50 just to see this the interaction in hype. Im sure others would agree with me on this.
3 Likes
Are you a software developer? before talking about money you should know how much it costs to develop such a thing;
Moreover, to make an animation like in the example, in reverse kinematics, it is necessary to be quite experienced. How many users have knowledge of direct and incidental cimenics (even in an environment with physics?) The same number of users that makes infographics and websites?
The purpose of the tumult is to provide useful tools for infographics and web development. The program you propose has another cost and a very specific vocation.
I repeat it again, your idea is interesting but does not cost €/£/$ 50 and is not now.
Take a look at the potentials of Hype4 beta, focus on that and prove to be a good HTML5 developer;
Look out Trump, someone else is building a wall. 
Seriously, this is good news.
I think your misunderstanding the scope of what I'm saying. Hype is a magnificent app when it comes to Hype's UI and its Functions lets get that out of the way. Secondly, when I said I was going to pay an additional $50 if the devs over @tumult consider any future upgrades not necessarily 4 maybe 4.5 or 5 or 5.5 release with the ability of rigging. This was not to say upcoming Hype 4 is not worthy of an upgrade.
Potentials? This is a feature request, meaning not tagged for Hype Beta 4. As for Hype 4, the beta rollouts are rolling out fast to address bugs. I think @jonathan and team are doing a great job at that.
Thats not entirely it, there are plenty of Illustrators that would love to have this as part of Hype. To be able to animate their Illustrations, export videos for IOS games and the list goes on. Take Adobe Animate /Flash, it has it has something like this its called 'Bone Tool'.
Im far from being a developer. However, I do know the libraries are available to make these animations from scratch. Im not sure how long it took @jonathan and team over tumult to inject Physics and earlier in the day Waypoints. As for the time it took to inject it in to hypes probably sometime but I wouldn't say it was a rewrite of the entire program more of a modification as the UI is already there to support future libraries give or take.
I can assure you that adding the Physics API to Hype added a HUMUNGOUS amount of complexity to Hype.
Just go try it... Matter.js - a 2D rigid body JavaScript physics engine · code by @liabru ...I've tried to add matter.js manually to a project. There were a lot of problems. That's without integrating the code into the Hype app itself... very VERY complicated.
But in general, Tumult Hype is the HTML5 replacement for Flash. What does Hype need to completely replace what Flash did back in its heyday? Aside from Joints / Bone Tool (what we're discussing here), better audio control, and a stupid easy vector graphics editor, Hype is essentially superior to Flash.
I don't think Flash had a built-in Physics engine either. So, Hype could be very powerful.
There's no sense in debating though. It looks like Tumult has this feature on their radar.
I understood well
you have to consider the complexity of the development and the percentage of user use. If the percentage is 5% in the first year for character animation, can you ask 50% more than the price? this is a naive reasoning.
your proposal is right but premature; The animation of characters is a great idea and I hope that we can do it in Hype, one day, but for now Hype 4 offers powerful tools for comix, try yourself with the morphing of shape and lines.
There is a long list of improvements and features that have priority. If you really care about the development of Hype consult the forum and read all the comments and discussions made.
I don't believe its 'premature' if the underlying tech/libraries exist. There's no hurt in having a rigging feature in hype much like with physics/matter when it was introduced to hype. The way I see it, physics is there for when you need it, its def not for every project thats a given, and the same could be said about rigging because it would there for you need as an option. Additionally, if It were part of hype it would attract a certain group of developers to want to buy it solely for that feature alone not to mention the added features that Hype has built-in over some other programs like 'creature' which costs $100 in the App Store and $249 as Pro version. I'd rather use Hype because I get more in return and because its not just for rigging but a boat load of tech in one and to top it off it looks awesome!
Thanks for the feedback; the upcoming vector shapes of v4 is a brick along such a path.
@Jonathan, dont want jump into conclusion and guess. What excatly do you mean with the response. Do you mean that v4 and the intro to vector is paving the way to the rigging or do you mean one can emulate this with vectors?
@Photics maybe your not as proficient in using/used the library which is why you ran into problems or simply because the library wasn't complete - it can be a number of things is what I'm saying.
Heh, and I’m saying go try it.
It’s a lot of theoretical, but go do some testing before making bold suggestions. After ~25 years of web development experience, I’ve learned that adding too many libraries is a bad idea, as you tend to get slow and buggy code... that’s not even factoring security issues... and the extra weight of code that’s not needed.
I’ve done the work and I tested Matter.js... Is there a Physics API? 🤔 ...and that’s one of the longest running threads on this forum. It’s not lack of experience. I’m not sure it’s the library’s fault either. I just think it’s a tough fit for Hype, as some actions are simply incompatible. That kind of stuff tends to happen when you mix off-the-shelf code.
...and again, there’s no need to debate. It appears Tumult is working towards bones / joints.
Tough fit for hype? But Tumult managed to fit it in anyways bravo Team Tumult and surely there are limitations, I understand and I get that it was a hell of a tricky process having to make it part of Hype. Also, @michelangelo can tell you about how only 5-10% use it and according to him it might have been premature a decision to have to have it there to begin with 
I’m kidding. Btw, I never said for Hype 4.
+1
every proposal is always welcome;
I've already said that, I'm happy to see HYPE compared to many other software (often of much larger companies). The misunderstanding of thinking that everything is possible (in this case with a probable estimate of 5%) is understandable but it is not feasible. This goes beyond the proposal of new features.
in any case we can buy the basic license of CrazyTalk (nice software) and play with it to understand which commands and animation functions can be added to HYPE
@michelangelo What a primitive justification of you agreeing or clinging to what @Photics mentioned. Well of course testing has to be done, wise one it almost goes without saying. 
Funny, according to your previous response it’s a premature proposal anyways which means it doesn’t count as proposal because according to you 5% will use it anyways and therefor shouldn’t be on the list of things not even for version. 4.5 or 5? Additionally, I never mentioned what version just a feature request you decided that I meant for version 4? Please get it through your thick head not for v4 or whatever @ tumult decides.
CrazyTalk animator 3.3 is not capable of outputting Htm and JS. Only Creature can bc uses js libraries which is why I shared the video. I say if it’s built into hype it would be a one versatile app that would cater to many designers and dwarf other apps in its way.
Let me attempt to put an end to this ridiculous back and forth, as it is already getting personal and out of hand.
- Team Tumult welcomes hearing about all feature requests. Sometimes we already got the memo, but I will never turn down duplicates to help judge popularity/needs which can also have further use cases, justification, or more information such as the competitive landscape.
- It will be best for the community to adopt the same perspective. Hype users are a diverse bunch, we should be welcoming of other’s ideas, even if they may not fit with the priorities of how we use the app or want to see it developed. These forums are a place to help grow and nurture creative ideas – whether in the most common form of better animations/documents, but also ideas to help evolve the app.
- Discussion about how easy/hard implementing a feature is before it has been developed is nearly pointless. We don’t take it as a single data point to say something would be quick until you’ve been an engineer on Hype’s codebase for a while, and even then I’m still going to multiply your estimate by four.
- I’m going full dictator here… Team Tumult has the best perspective on priorities, development difficulty, and timing. We get a lot of feedback (on and off the forums) from a great number of users and how features can fit into our business. We can’t please everyone all the time, but I believe you folks are here because our roadmap has been pleasing enough. I did give a whole talk about how we turn ideas into features at the Hype Conference if you are interested in learning more.
- As such, please do not speak on our behalf about what we are doing (especially if it is speculation) or what we should be doing. It is true that your assumptions are often correct on our roadmap and direction, but a) posting about assumptions can lead to FUD if incorrect or if we change our minds, and b) it shouldn’t be used to shoot down ideas. Most good ideas don’t have expiration dates.
But this is the most important one:
- Do not post angry. Whether at another user or at the app itself. Do not insult other users. It isn’t constructive and rarely leads to any good.
I will be specific in regards to bone rigging to try to leave out ambiguity:
- Bone rigging is a cool feature for character animation.
- Hype has is not the strongest character animation tool, but as we’ve increased animation capabilities (timing functions, motion paths, transform origins, v4’s vector shapes) it will likely be used more and more for character animation and we have no objections moving to better support this use case.
- We like supporting new implicit animation methods that may be tedious/hard to do with keyframes, and these often have “wow” factor. Physics is a good example of a similar concept in the past.
- This feature will not be for v4 since we are trying to wrap it up.
- I am focused on v4 and while there are plans, any real future roadmap will be shaped by how v4 is used. Thus I can’t make any guarantees or promises for if/when this feature would be in Hype.
- I do not know how difficult this would be to add. In an approach where we offer the feature similar to other apps, the math for inverse kinematics is well understood. Heck, the physics engine constraints might even be able to do this.
Getting back to the real matter at hand…
Before posting, do a quick check and ask yourself that if you were a new user coming to the forums, would the post be constructive and illuminating, or would you be turned off by negativity? This especially goes for replies to something that can be perceived as an attack. Sometimes a lack of reply is the high ground and a more powerful statement. I don’t want these forums to turn into an outrage machine like Twitter. You each have helped countless folks and I don’t like seeing pettiness like this thread get in the way of the impact you’ve had.
Seriously, if I were your parent I’d force you all to play nice and make an animation together 
.
6 Likes
Amen, Brothers...
1 Like
Yes, I too think keeping a positive outlook is healthy. It’s best we stop arguing and focus on the positive and make hype the tool not just for a specific group.
How is this topic going? I'm also interested in a bone system, but... maybe not for animation, I mean.
I made an adult site called TyT, is a kamasutra with very complex figures drawn in HYPE and for this project I used nested objects, so I made a group inside a group inside a group, so I select the any part of the body to move it independently like the hand and I can pick the arm to move the hole group containing also the hand, is like a very basic rigging for my characters and I also using it for games.
It would be awesome to have a little bone system, not only for animation, can you imagine a rigging reacting to physics? think on the possibilities!
- A Ragdoll falling from a staircase.
- Hanging menus using ropes or chains
- A Basketball net moving when the ball passes by
- Imagine to animate a dragon up and down and the physics making the tale follow along in real time
- Or a simple rod puppet with arms hanging and you just animate the position of the body and the arm move freely, use drag function to move the stick and all parts following and hanging
- Swinging objects of any kind
- Vehicles suspensions
- Play with physics using a Triple pendulum
- Experiment with levers for simple machines
- Imagine to animate an Octopus, some times yo move the tip of an arm and some times you move the body and the arms follow like in the sea.
- Trail effects for movement
And so much more
So many possibilities
4 Likes
Inverse kinematics is great but Hype lacks “kinematics” to start with. Meaning if you nest object like you mentioned you can do already many poses... the problem is that you need to walk the tree to first focus any level of depth to rotate a thing. If there would be a mode SOMEKEY click that selects an object directly in its native group you could just click it and modify it. Also having transformation origins always visible (optional) would help immensely... to start with.
2 Likes