[quote=“Wolla, post:8, topic:6009”]
Reading and the tutorials seems to me not really efficient regarding the Hype product.So, thanks for the help. [/quote]
[quote=“Daniel, post:10, topic:6009, full:true”]
I welcome criticism on our written documentation, since most words are mine – technical documentation is hard to get right. It’s a balance of writing for non-technical users, and links to additional content for those who want a bit more detail. [/quote]
I completely understand Wolla’s sentiment. This forum is invaluable for learning Hype + ancillary Javascript.
Daniel - I don’t think Hype’s online documentation can be improved upon as a broad-brushed evaluation. The issue most that shows up most often for me in learning Hype (and JavaScript) is context. I have a stack of JavaScript & HTML books, plus Michael’s “A Book About Hype”. They are, in general helpful, but cannot cover every particular need. It’s like trying to learn a foreign language using a Berlitz phrase book.
The knowledgable contributors, plus The Tumult’s team critical (and frequent) participation, in this forum offer insights that I don’t believe could be stuffed into a single tome. Even if it could be done, ferreting out where to look for the answer to an issue can be a trick, especially if You do not know the precise question to ask; another reason why this forum is so useful. Additionally, even if a question isn’t answered in exact detail You are often pointed in the right direction for further research.
Thank You to All for your participation on this Forum - it makes such a difference.
I think the thing most people miss is that Documentation is Documentation, a Manual.
Documentation describes the app, UI and how to use functionality. It is not a Tutorial.
The best Documentation comes with examples to help explain that functionality but again they are not Tutorials.
I am very comfortable diving into a new app and actually using it's menu system as my guide to what it can do.
And I think like most people, the way most Documentation is written is off putting. It is a trawl to go through it.
But in my opinion, Tumults Documentation is one of the best I've seen for a long time
I really mean that. I am impressed with how well it does it's job , how often it is being updated and with more examples.
But the bottom line is it is Documentation.
And once you have read it you should then have the basic knowledge of what you can do with Hype and be able to ask the right questions in it's Partner, this forum.
Not taking the trouble to do that will lead to some of the questions that pop up here which are confusing and show the lack of the basic understanding of how Hype works.
Saying that, I do understand that many people are visual in their learning and find reading through how to do something does not always help them form an understanding. I am actually one of those people.
If I was to ask for any improvement to the Documentation then it would be where feasible, more example (basic) videos within the documentation itself to show what was just described.
I am inclined to like step by step tutorials with explanations of the goals that each operation intends to reach, and the reasons for doing it that way, pros and cons of doing an operation a certain way, and do’s and don’ts. But that would be a perfect tutorial that could not possibly suit everyone. I am a teacher/instructor and we do have a different viewpoint that is reached by teaching for years.
Having said all that, when I get frustrated, and I do, when I make myself go to the documentation, do a search, 90% of the time I get what I need. Where I fall down is that when I learn something, I am usually in a hurry and don’t do my own documentation i.e. : what caused my question, what was I trying to do, what were the experiment results, AND THEN a month later I end up trying to remember a problem I already solved, but forgot about.
I agree with the comment about i incorporation of some videos, overviews that arent specific don’t help much. Just saying something can be done (like Apple is so fond of doing in their help files, such as they are) is not that effective.
Hype documentation (thanks Doctor Daniel) is as good or better than 95% of all apps out there. Could be Freeway with 120 pages in agonizing over-explaining detail. Great start Dan, just add to it and we will try to take the time to tell you whats important (may not be important to everyone, but thats life)
One more thing: rarely in any other forum do you get the degree of participation by the developers. Many forums are full of critical people who see it as their duty to tell you what a fool you are for not knowing some arcane obscure detail.
Actually, I'm used to seeing developers in forums. Basically, it usually starts off nice. Then, it degrades into hostile conversations. Ultimately, the developers go into hiding. They then have the option to assign a "Community Relations Manager" to catch the arrows.
I spent 13 years in the classroom and with a huge range of ages. Learning styles can be all over the place.
The three main objectives (however they are presented) is what something does, how it does it, and why I should use it. Some tech writers cover all three but not most.
As for documentation, my best experience was with the twin printed volumes that came with Macromedia (now Adobe) Director: a manual and a reference volume.
The manual covered the what and why and a general idea of how.
The reference volume had the entire scripting language along with multiple examples for each term in context of the script, along with written descriptions what what is happening with each example, showing the how as well as the why.
I will forever prefer printed manuals because you can instantly fan to anywhere, pop in makeshift bookmarks, and you can be studying the manual while simultaneously flipping around the reference volume. This provided the tools to make sense out of even the most complex processes (and the scripting was just as challenging and powerful as JS).
I would love to see someone come up with this two-volume approach to JS with Hype, even if only in a digital format.
I also like printed manuals because you can make notes easily. Hype documentation is downloadable with and without example files, so you could either print it to paper, keep the down loaded file, add your own comments and print every so often if you like paper copy for a quicker reference.
That's not A Book About Hype? It doesn't have 50 JavaScript examples, but lots of the examples are related to JavaScript.
I don't consider myself elitist. I'm generally the opposite. I think JavaScript is a great language – especially for beginners. Although, once you get good enough in JavaScript, it sorta negates the need for Hype.
If I think something may be able to be achieved in JS but I do not have knowledge of a full solution I research..
Where do you think I for example do my research..
The Internet.
This includes looking at standard JS API documentation
Which has hundreds if not thousands of examples of individual functions out there, just waiting.
There are also countless JS tutorials for the beginner.
I'm curious if you think that's the case on this forum. Because I don't think that the people on this site, including myself, who help with JS have that attitude. We try and explain where we can what is going on with the JS that we give out.
But we cannot teach people all the basics. There is not the time in the would to keep doing that.
We cannot say to someone oh I have a solution to that but first let me show you the a-z of basics of JS so that you can follow what comes next. We can plug away at that until you understand enough that we can move on to the next level. What! , Oh no the next level is only to take you to the level just before the level we need to get to because the solution is very advanced JS.
What we do do is give the solution and try to explain it so beginners will understand. And in most cases just be able to use it.
But what happens a lot is someone will want to change the way we did something but does not know how. That's not a problem but sometimes it can drag on unnecessarily because the person asking is not being clear in what they want but also because they are not taking the time to try and learn about a tool that they feel is essential to their work.
I need sunglasses to hide my eyes from the burning glow of elitism
Seriously, I'm confused. What's the point of this thread? Hype has very good documentation. The people that frequent this forum are friendly. Where's the problem?
Also, I published some free Hype templates... Free Hype Templates 🏗 ...there didn't seem to be enough interest to justify creating more of them. If there was a hunger for more Hype documentation, wouldn't that have been more popular?
@Photics
Hi Michael!
The point of this thread originally was to praise this Forum. I wished to acknowledge the valuable contributions of people who so generously give of their time to help others. In the two months I have been learning~using Hype I now have archived over 275 posts & Hype examples (Zip files) from individuals like You that I have on hand for current and future reference. These files have been of immense help (along with the books and online documentation). Thanks again to everyone - it's a great Forum!
Hi Furutan, I started using Hype when it was in version 1. My only knowledge of javascript at that time was to copy/paste premade javascripts from websites to apply them to the websites I was working on. Hype opened the door that got me to start learning to write javascript on my own, and see the results immediately. I am a long way from being an 'elite javascript guru' and I learn a lot from the folks on this forum.
So, I encourage you to ask questions, use the search function on this forum and to dive in and try your best. When you get stuck, like we all have, just ask for help and the folks on this forum will enjoy helping you. Plus, we all learn by helping each other.
